Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

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bender
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by bender » 07 Jul 2016, 19:50

Spooler wrote:Honestly what pisses me off is realistically we're not borrowing enough money, this country needs some SERIOUS infrastructure upgrades especially in health and public transport, we're so far behind demand it's disgusting.

We can definitely afford the projects long term but the mind-set of "we should have a surplus is just so dammed damaging.
A surplus is basically the definition of national economic mis-management. Seriously we should be angry when a surplus gets announced because it's basically the government saying "there's no way we can think to effectively utilize these resources to increase growth".
I agree, we havn't invested enough in infrastructure for the future. We left too much up to the private sector, and surprise, they tend to pocket the money rather than reinvest for long term returns that also provide other non monetary benefits.

What concerns me is that we may have missed our chance, just like we missed capitalising on the mining boom. Australia could be about to lose its AAA rating, the uncertainty in the government, failed budgets, budget deficit and current global financial climate is leading to investors potentially reassessing our AAA credit rating. If this happens, it means less disposable income to spend, slower growth, fewer jobs, more strain on centrelink etc.

I place the blame squarely at the Coalitions feet. Tony Abbot has been the cause of a lot of problems over the last few years.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Matty » 07 Jul 2016, 20:04

Sathias wrote:
Matty wrote:I also don't think too highly of them but they did get enough votes, so, *Shrugs* can't argue that people don't want him there. I don't think you can really blame Mal for that. Other than maybe people not liking him and voting for someone else.
Senate is going to be pretty cool though. It's like a reality TV show now!
The DD means that you only need half a quota (8% instead of 16%) to get a Senate seat, Pauline would have likely got her seat but the other QLD guy wouldn't even have a chance unless they got around double the vote they got.
I know that, but it's not Malcolm's fault though, that's just part of our electoral process. Ask and ye shall receive a retarded senate.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Spooler » 07 Jul 2016, 21:18

bender wrote: I place the blame squarely at the Coalitions feet. Tony Abbot has been the cause of a lot of problems over the last few years.
Yuup we won't recover from the scare campaigns about having a defecit for a loooong time.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Sathias » 07 Jul 2016, 23:05

Matty wrote:
Sathias wrote:
Matty wrote:I also don't think too highly of them but they did get enough votes, so, *Shrugs* can't argue that people don't want him there. I don't think you can really blame Mal for that. Other than maybe people not liking him and voting for someone else.
Senate is going to be pretty cool though. It's like a reality TV show now!
The DD means that you only need half a quota (8% instead of 16%) to get a Senate seat, Pauline would have likely got her seat but the other QLD guy wouldn't even have a chance unless they got around double the vote they got.
I know that, but it's not Malcolm's fault though, that's just part of our electoral process. Ask and ye shall receive a retarded senate.
He called a DD because he mistakenly thought it would give him an electoral advantage and make the Senate more workable. It was completely a tactical decision as he got The Greens and Nick X to agree to the Senate reforms, then called the DD 2 days later. Yeah, its part of our electoral process, but its an electoral process he shaped to his choosing just before calling the election.

He was mistaken and ended up making the Senate worse, and got Hanson and probably 2 more racist idiots elected in the process. I reckon it's extremely kind to say this isn't his fault. Everyone paints him as some master communicator/politician (including me once upon a time I have to admit) but evidence suggests that he's not actually very good at this stuff.
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Matty
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Matty » 08 Jul 2016, 00:42

Sathias wrote: He was mistaken and ended up making the Senate worse
Only worse in your opinion. You are basically saying that you wished there was no DD so the people you don't like can stay out of parliament and I don't really believe that's what democracy and Australia is about. I bet you'd be over the moon if your preferred candidates won all the seats/spots. They got the votes and they got in, the quota is neither here nor there. There is no real person to blame for this.

...except the voters I guess, technically.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Spooler » 08 Jul 2016, 10:48

I get what you're saying Matty but if you honestly believe a senate with Pauline Hanson in it is not a worse senate than literally any other option.
Then I'm going to have to suspend my understanding of your defense of "democracy is good all voices should be heard" and troll you by calling you a racist.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Sathias » 08 Jul 2016, 11:30

Matty wrote:
Sathias wrote: He was mistaken and ended up making the Senate worse
Only worse in your opinion. You are basically saying that you wished there was no DD so the people you don't like can stay out of parliament and I don't really believe that's what democracy and Australia is about. I bet you'd be over the moon if your preferred candidates won all the seats/spots. They got the votes and they got in, the quota is neither here nor there. There is no real person to blame for this.

...except the voters I guess, technically.
I get what you saying, but Pauline is provably racist, provably divisive, and provably ignorant. She has strong opinions on topics she doesn't even understand, and her running partners are even worse. Their presence is going to be an international embarrassment. I wouldn't say the same about the Liberals or any other party that I'm not politically aligned with.

And when I say "worse" I don't mean "people I don't like" anyway, I mean unworkable as far as the disparate parties and motivations which the government will have to deal with to get legislation through. He called a DD to make the Senate more workable. He failed.
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Ralph Wiggum
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Ralph Wiggum » 08 Jul 2016, 11:33

Well then Pauline is really just a reflection of the people of Queensland then :P
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by André Axe'm » 08 Jul 2016, 11:37

That is the purpose of the Senate.
Its a better representation of the people than the other house. Australia is full of nuts.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Bicketybam » 08 Jul 2016, 12:25

Ralph Wiggum wrote:Well then Pauline is really just a reflection of the people of Queensland then :P
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Spooler » 08 Jul 2016, 13:42

André Axe'm wrote:That is the purpose of the Senate.
Its a better representation of the people than the other house. Australia is full of nuts.

I'm a firm believer that not everyone deserves representation.

I also believe that because everyone deserves representation that Idocracy is a prophecy of what's to come.

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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Disco » 08 Jul 2016, 14:52

Spooler wrote:I'm a firm believer that not everyone deserves representation.
Wait, because some people don't agree with you they don't deserve representation? :eh:
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Spooler » 08 Jul 2016, 16:15

You can simplify it to that if you want, but really it's more complex than that.

I believe if your ideology/way of life or thought causes needless grief to others you do not deserve representation.

Or if your stance is provably wrong that it deserves representation. I.E if the flat earth society want to vote a candidate in from the flat earth party to have all records of earth being round destroyed, as the stance is provably incorrect they should have no right to representation on that issue as it has no merit.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by bender » 08 Jul 2016, 17:25

Spooler wrote:
André Axe'm wrote:That is the purpose of the Senate.
Its a better representation of the people than the other house. Australia is full of nuts.

I'm a firm believer that not everyone deserves representation.

I also believe that because everyone deserves representation that Idocracy is a prophecy of what's to come.

Whilst Australia may be full of ignorant nuts, its the ones with malicious tendencies, affluence and/or power, that ultimately do the real damage in society. Idiocracy, while making a good point, doesn't cover the malicious idiocy/ignorance that would ultimately lead to our destruction. I think the true future (if an idiocracy like future comes to fruition) would be far darker, bloodier, divisive and filled with hate.

It takes a lot of effort to build something. It can take mere moments to destroy it.

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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Matty » 08 Jul 2016, 19:30

Spooler wrote: I'm a firm believer that not everyone deserves representation.
What do say to people that don't believe you deserve representation? I agree with nothing you've said in the last 3 or so pages in this thread (really). While I know you it (why else would you say it?), I think pretty much all the stuff you have said is idiotic, backwards and harmful. Should I silence your voice then? Are you ok with that?
Sathias wrote: And when I say "worse" I don't mean "people I don't like" anyway, I mean unworkable as far as the disparate parties and motivations which the government will have to deal with to get legislation through.
This is the entire point of the senate, you elect someone to represent you. People want Pauline Hanson to represent them in the senate. They agree with what she says.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Spooler » 08 Jul 2016, 19:49

@Bender
You've got a point there ... a damn good point there...


Matty wrote:
What do you think when I say I don't believe you don't deserve representation because I agree with nothing you've said in the last 3 or so pages in this thread? While you don't think so, I think pretty much all the stuff you have said is idiotic, backwards and harmful. Should I silence your voice then?
If I have made any stance that is disprovable then I would agree that I don't deserve representation, buuuut I'm going to go ahead and say that's not the case.

Also "silence my voice" in the senate ? I don't have a voice in the senate at all so... you know ... that's an exercise in futility right there.


I get it though you're an idealist and your idealism is one that that sees no flaws with giving voice to vicious racist dill holes.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Matty » 08 Jul 2016, 20:00

Spooler wrote: If I have made any stance that is disprovable then I would agree that I don't deserve representation, buuuut I'm going to go ahead and say that's not the case.

Also "silence my voice" in the senate ? I don't have a voice in the senate at all so... you know ... that's an exercise in futility right there.


I get it though you're an idealist and your idealism is one that that sees no flaws with giving voice to vicious racist dill holes.
Wut. This isn't true at all. And you have someone to represent you in the senate. That's the whole point of government. But Spooler, I am backing out of this argument because we will just fight. Do you see how that works? I don't agree with what you say but I still think you should be able to say it. Hell if enough people agree with what you say you should get a seat in the senate.

Some people are naturally empathetic and some people have to learn it I guess.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Spooler » 08 Jul 2016, 20:34

Matty wrote:Some people are naturally empathetic and some people have to learn it I guess.
I get it you're an idealist and your idealism leans toward everyone having a voice being a great thing.

The problem is we have Pauline Hanson someone who has belittled and or outright denied the suffering of our own Aboriginal people, spent time in jail for electoral fraud, has always been opposed to the racial discrimination act, made statements like "my fear is if we keep going the way we're going the yellows will rule the world" and you can go on and on here she's a horrible racist person.

How much empathy do you have for the minorities in her district ? The people that get to live with the consequences of giving a racist a seat in the senate.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Matty » 08 Jul 2016, 21:26

Spooler wrote: I get it you're an idealist and your idealism leans toward everyone having a voice being a great thing.
Spooler, first stop labeling me as something. I can see you like to make rash generalisations but you have no idea who I am or what I stand for.
Spooler wrote: How much empathy do you have for the minorities in her district ? The people that get to live with the consequences of giving a racist a seat in the senate.
Plenty. Are you sure you understand what empathy is and how it works? Because I'm starting to think that your idea of empathy is actually aggressive anger and hatred to people and things you don't like.
Last edited by Matty on 08 Jul 2016, 21:30, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Otto-matic Reiffel » 08 Jul 2016, 21:27

Unfortunately a significant enough chunk of the Australian population are racist twats. As a democracy, this means we may get racist twats in government to represent the other racist twats. Democracy! A somewhat representative slice of the actual population, good and bad.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Spooler » 08 Jul 2016, 23:08

Otto-matic Reiffel wrote:Unfortunately a significant enough chunk of the Australian population are racist twats. As a democracy, this means we may get racist twats in government to represent the other racist twats. Democracy! A somewhat representative slice of the actual population, good and bad.
That's not "really" democracy though it's representative government.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Matty » 08 Jul 2016, 23:11

Democracy:
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

:\
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Artful-dodgeR » 10 Jul 2016, 17:11

Aaaand Shorten concedes.

I have no fucking clue how Libs won again.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by Spooler » 10 Jul 2016, 17:25

Australian's have 0 understanding of economics, that's how the libs won again.
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Re: Federal Election 2016! It's on tonight!

Post by NoobyMcNoobnoob » 10 Jul 2016, 19:03

meh they did well considering the state of MSM almost against them from the start. i would be lucky to see even one jurno from news corp even bother asking a question of mal's "we have a plan".

probably act out like a monty python sketch
we have a plan
ok can you tell the australian public what the plan is?
jobs and growth
can you be a little more specific
by sticking with the current plan
and what does this plan entitle
jobs and growth
HOW DOES THE PLAN FOR MORE JOBS AND GROWTH WORK
by giving 50 billion dollars to rich people in the form of tax cuts
and?
and jobs and growth
i dont see how this means more jobs and growth for the average australian?
what are you a labor supporter?
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