Training and fitness.

"Would say maybe Arts/Crafts/Cooking/Gardening but then the forum title gets a bit long..."
User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 19 Mar 2016, 16:31

Hello boys and girls. Not sure if this thread should be here or in sports so if your a mod do what makes you happy ;)

Anyway in spirit of the Arnold Classic in Melbourne this weekend and also since now is the time when most people with new years resolutions start looking to cancel gym memberships I thought maybe I could help some of you. This is based purely on people new to the gym not on people who have lifted for a couple of years. I can write up something more advanced though if that's needed..(plateaus are no such thing unless you have reached a genetic limit).

So I give to you all a 4 day split. (3 day splits are rubbish).

Day 1, Chest, Bi's
Incline Barbell press x 1 set warmup, 4 x 10-15
Flat Barbell press 4 x 8-15
Hammerstrength press 4 x 15 (Don't have a hammer strength in your gym? Do dumb bell press)
Cable flies 4 x 15
Barbell curl 4 x 12-15
Alternating dumbbell curl 4 x 8-12

Mixing chest with bi's instead of triceps ensures your not trying to work an already fatigued muscle. As you are new to the gym you are unlikely to have a mind muscle connection where you can only isolate your chest in the above movements without involving your triceps.

Day 2, Back, Tri's
Lat pull down 5 x 10-15. When I started years ago lat's were my hardest muscles to learn how too activate. Your lats are what will give your body a V taper.
V bar lat pull down, Super set with pull overs. 4 x 10-15. I can provide videos of these movements if you'r unsure.
Single arm dumb bell row 4 x 12. At the beginning of the movement pull the weight backwards to your hip then pull up to properly activate your latismuss.
Seated v bar row 4 x 15
Seated wide grip row 4 x 12
Tricep rope pull down 4 x 15
Skull crusher 4 x 12

No Bent over rows here. Why? Because I've seen too many newbies who cant activate their glutes and hip hinge properly to get parallel enough to make them worth it. No dead lifts reason at the end.

Day 3, Shoulders, Abs
Machine press, Dumbell press 4 x 8-12
Side raises 4 x 15
Upright rows 4 x 15
Seated bent over flies 4 x 12
Front raises 4 x 12
Abs - do what ever you want (weight crunches, leg raises etc)

Shoulders is all straight forward. Don't bother with shrugs. Traps will develop on their own don't waste your time.

Day 4, Legs MY FAVOURITE.
Leg extension 5 x 10-15. Lets pump those quads and warm up the knees.
Leg press 5 x 10-15. Feet low for more quad isolation, feet high to involve more glute. If you have back issues like I do, use alternating legs single press. As you press lift your big toe off the plate and push through the heal.
Walking lunges 4 x 10. You will feel like being sick after this. Involve the glutes to support your lower back.
Machine hammy curl 5 x 10. I don't do a lot of hammys my genetics make it easy for me to grow there but if you struggle with them you can also add in;
Straight leg deadies - 4 x 10. As you come down ever so slightly bend the knees and push your hips out behind you. If your lower back is coming in your doing this wrong and I can try too explain this better.

But easp you noob! You may say. No squats or deadies WTF? Every one knows theyre the best exercises! Mate 1. Everyones bio mechanics are different and don't allow them to squat with correct form and 2. If they have any kind of back issue their asking for an injury. Not too mention most adults have a semi sedentary life where their glutes do not activate very well which will lead too injuries aswell. Squats and deadlifts are advanced lifts and should never be performed by a beginner. This is the ignorance of most trainers getting their brand new clients performing these movements and then wondering whats wrong with them when they complain of back issues.

DIET and CARDIO.
I'm not going to go much into this right now unless people need specific help in which case I can put a diet on here which is easy too follow, No calorie counting and you will lose weight. Just know that to lose a kilo a week you need to burn 3500 calories or 500 cal a day. Best way to do this is by eating in a calorie deficiet and also doing some kind of high intensity cardio where you can burn around 250 cal. I enjoy 20 mins on the stair master for this.

Going for jogs or doing any sought of steady state cardio is incredibly bad for fat loss. Why? because your body is smart and learns very quickly too become very efficient at burning calories. Instead you will slowly burn muscle creating that skinny fat look (skinny but no abs).

Go in. Smash your weights for 45 mins and then go do your 20 mins cardio.

I get a great kick out of helping people in the gym and hope people who are interested give this a try and let me know how it goes.
Last edited by easp on 19 Mar 2016, 16:38, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 19 Mar 2016, 16:35

If theres any ladies out there also, this can be changed to suit you with more lower body work and getting rid of most of the chest day. Guys don't be those people that go to the gym either and do a ton of crunches and other ab movements. Theirs only so much you can strengthen your core doing this shit and its not going to give you the 6 pack you think it will.

And I almost forget. No talk of cross fit! :P
0 x

User avatar
storm84
Posts: 1894
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 16:58
Location: ACT
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by storm84 » 19 Mar 2016, 18:53

My training at the moment consists as running as long as I can twice a week - which at the the momentis aroundthe 7km mark. Try to get weights in when I can, but it only seems to happen every couple of weeks.
0 x
Image

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 19 Mar 2016, 19:01

storm84 wrote:My training at the moment consists as running as long as I can twice a week - which at the the momentis aroundthe 7km mark. Try to get weights in when I can, but it only seems to happen every couple of weeks.
Hey Storm. What are your goals? If you want to compete in marathons, half marathons, fun runs etc, disregard my entire post. My post is more geared into long term health aswell such as gaining bone density and strengthening of muscles which will make you more limber as you grow older ontop of the aesthetics you gain from doing a body building split + HIIT cardio. I have done a pt course and through training with people who actually compete I have a bit of a broader knowledge than your average pt though only in this area.

If you need advice in how to run faster for longer etc I cant help you sorry. 7 kms is awesome though and I would fall flat on my face after 3 and then die from shin splints for 4 weeks afterwards. Your doing well!
0 x

User avatar
storm84
Posts: 1894
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 16:58
Location: ACT
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by storm84 » 19 Mar 2016, 19:40

Running-wise I have no particular goal in mind other than to see what my limits are. The other exercise I do is for health, such as resistance training at the gym and bodyweight exercises.
0 x
Image

User avatar
Disco
Posts: 4138
Joined: 05 Nov 2015, 17:32
Location: NSW

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by Disco » 19 Mar 2016, 19:49

God I should join a gym, and then actually go -.-
0 x
Nekosan wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 00:36
Disco is fkn banned from the flamethrower. :lol:

User avatar
kharis
Posts: 3083
Joined: 05 Nov 2015, 20:59
Location: 127.0.0.1
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by kharis » 19 Mar 2016, 20:04

Disco wrote:God I should join a gym, and then actually go -.-
this x100
0 x

User avatar
storm84
Posts: 1894
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 16:58
Location: ACT
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by storm84 » 19 Mar 2016, 20:23

Disco wrote:God I should join a gym, and then actually go -.-
I've had a gym membership for about 3.5 years now. The main benefit, I find, is that once you're there you're setting yourself time to exercise. It works well as a psychological fix for those moments when exercise really seems like the last thing you want to do.

That said, the main drawback for me is that there's not a lot of extra benefit to a gym membership (at least in the way I'm using it) over just doing exercise on your own. Walking / running outside has much better benefits than running on a treadmill. There are bodyweight exercises that exercise muscle groups just as well as doing resistance training. etc. Gym memberships to me seem aspirational more than anything else, and only really work for a certain kind of exercise regime.

Then again, I'm fairly sure I'm underutilising my gym by sticking to the treadmill / rowing machine / resistance machines, so I may not be the best advocate for it. Getting out for a walk among trees on a sunny day seems to me a better fitness path for most people.
0 x
Image

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 19 Mar 2016, 21:35

Hey Storm. Yes you are wasting your gym member ship. Sorry I don't want that too sound rough. If your not hitting the weights whats the point hey? I will agree running on a tready is shit house that's why I recommended stairs. Also the eciliptical or as I call it the cross trainer is awesome. No impact on your body.

In regards to bodyweight exercises to replace resistance training it's the same thing. Unless you have a home gym theirs only so much you can do. You can squat and lunge your heart out but its not going to hypertrophy your muscles without contraction under tension. If there is no tension your not going to stimulate that muscles. Every one please note muscle growth is time under tension and 8 reps of hard negatives that burn on the way down as well as every contraction will stimulate more muscle growth than just pushing weight for 15 reps.
Last edited by easp on 20 Mar 2016, 07:43, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

User avatar
storm84
Posts: 1894
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 16:58
Location: ACT
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by storm84 » 19 Mar 2016, 21:50

I actually don't mind the treadmill (it sets my pace, doesn't have any traffic, keeps me out of the elements), though I really can't stand the elliptical. Every time I get on it, I can barely get my heart-rate up unless I push myself to the point I'm straining muscles in my legs that don't get much use otherwise. Agreed on the value of stairs. It's something I make sure to do whenever possible at work.

As far as bodyweight goes, is there anything that a non-bodybuilder would need that they can't get from push-ups / squats / crunches / etc. that the gym provides? If so, what is the kind of resistance regimen you'd recommend for an average person trying to offset the sedentary lifestyle of office-work?
0 x
Image

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 19 Mar 2016, 22:17

I'm understanding you a little bit more from your posts. I want you too forget completely about body builders and every one else. You are there purely for your self. Look your clearly very active and muscle growth is not your goal so if you have no injuries no I would not recommend doing anything I posted before. BUT. There is a whole other side to lifting I think you would be interested in. Its called power lifting. Its about building strength in the 3 core moves, bench, squat and dead lift. Seriously mate give it ago and let us now if it works for you!

If still not interested see the post below.
Last edited by easp on 20 Mar 2016, 07:48, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 20 Mar 2016, 01:37

*edit

Let me try and do this better because I got pretty one eyed last night. If your doing a push up you are technically bench pressing yes? With your body as the resistance. Through training your body adapts by hypertropy and strength. So after you have done the same resistance for a while your body has adapted. So to move forward you need too increase volume and weight. This is progressive overload.

I understand muscles aren't your thing so why don't we try something else. Why don't we get you doing 10ks or even book you in too a charity fund raiser half marathon?
0 x

User avatar
storm84
Posts: 1894
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 16:58
Location: ACT
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by storm84 » 20 Mar 2016, 12:42

The thing for me is that I tend to believe I really ought to be doing resistance training, at least on occasion. But I'm not really sure which muscles I ought to be exercising, or which machines to use (or even if I should be using machines at all). A problem I have is I'm genuinely interested in trying to understand how it is to do a better workout, and I've found a lot of contradictory information in trying to research this topic for myself. So it's always good to have someone who knows there stuff to bounce my knowledge off to see whether I'm on the right track.

My weights routine at the moment consists of most of the following:
Machine chest press: 12@40kg + 8@47kg
Fixed pulldown: 12@47kg + 8@54kg
Back extension: 12@80kg + 10@89kg
Machine biceps curl: 12@32kg + 8@37kg
Leg press: 12@75kg + 10@85kg
Chest fly: 12@40kg + 8@45kg
(sometimes) Cable row: 2*12@47kg
(occasionally) Ab crunch machine: 2*12*25kg

Now since I go to the gym alone, I don't really feel comfortable using the free weights (besides, that's where the hardcore gym junkies tend to congregate and I feel out of place enough as it is simply being in the same building as them). And since I've found I've gotten into running more hardcore (I actually enjoy running), resistance training is falling by the wayside. So I'm trying to get back into it.

On the subject of running, I'm hoping to do a 10km fun-run in September, but I think I need to improve my fitness a bit more for that. I've only broken the 10km mark 3 times, so at the moment I'm trying to find ways to increase my stamina. Maybe I need to up the amount I run, or go back to doing other cardio such as HIIT cycling. I just don't know atm.
0 x
Image

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 20 Mar 2016, 12:56

I was just throwing the power lifting and half marathon out there as ideas. It always is good to set your self goals too work towards. That way you train with a purpose and have more motivation. I will speak too some other trainers who understand distance running better than I do and see what we can come up with!

In regards to your weights theres always a benefit to doing them but I think for you we should drop out all isolation movements and focus on multi joint movements which seems to be what your focusing on anyway. Maybe we could do a upper body day and a lower body day with a rest day in the middle of the week before you repeat them again? If that sounds good Ill think about it a bit and type it up later?
0 x

User avatar
kharis
Posts: 3083
Joined: 05 Nov 2015, 20:59
Location: 127.0.0.1
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by kharis » 20 Mar 2016, 13:11

seeing as you're being helpful i'll pick your brains :P

so basically after having a couple of kids and edging towards 40 its getting a bit harder to keep the pudge at bay, can't really do alot of running due to soccer and martial arts killing my knees when I was younger so really just need a basic workout i can do maybe a couple of times a week when i'm kid free and not at work, mainly looking at toning stomach thighs, bit of upper body and back strengthening and general health advantages obviously, there is a fitness first about 100m down the road which is handy as well, thought about cycling a bit but my house is on top of a steep hill and the ride home doesn't sound too enticing :)

If you have any ideas great if not all good too :D
0 x

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 20 Mar 2016, 13:19

I'm going to write up this upper/lower body split later which would be better for anyone who only trains a couple of times a week and is more looking towards general well being than making gains. The workout would be the same for male and female. Its when say a girl is training and wants to work on her booty for example that obviously workouts change for different genders.

For the pudge - 20 minutes on the stairs or a hard slog on the cross trainer. 4 days a week if possible. We want sweat pouring off you at the end of this 20 minutes. No alchohol in the week if that's something you do?

Foods. No cereal apart from oats. I like to make a shake in the morning with a cup of mango and berries, half a cup of oats and a scoop of protein. Ill have half a chicken breast and a cup of greens 2-3x a day and then a steak or a piece of white fish for dinner with greens. This is very low carb and I have to reefeed on the weekend to avoid starvation. Add in half a cup of rice too dinner and maybe your second meal? I've been eating like this for years so it may sound boring but its kind of nice not thinking what do you want to do about food. Even try the diet out for a month. I think you will be surprised how quickly it comes off. If your female it would be a good idea to get an iron supplement. Other supplements which are good include magnesium, calcium, omega 3 oils and a good multi.

In general theres a lot of bullshit out there with supplements and they will all have you believe theirs is the only supp that works. I like the herbs of gold brand.
Last edited by easp on 22 Mar 2016, 10:54, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

User avatar
kharis
Posts: 3083
Joined: 05 Nov 2015, 20:59
Location: 127.0.0.1
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by kharis » 20 Mar 2016, 13:43

sounds good thanks will give it a go, not a big bread/cereal eater at the best of times, but cutting down on pasta is something i need to do
0 x

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 20 Mar 2016, 14:00

Yes definatly need to cut down on that though pasta is great for refeeds so if you pick a day or a couple of days where you have dieted all week and you have to reefed you can have as much pasta as you like. Carbohydrates are what we cut from diets usually to lose weight. This is not to say we are going keto but we are going to limit the amount of insulin we let the body produce. I have a very physically demanding job and train 5-6 x a week. Around 200g of carbs a day is a good amount for me to not lose anyway weight and slowly build muscle. A standard big M has more than 60g of carbs in it. A big bowl of pasta would easily be 100g. This is to give you an idea of how much carbs you really need to be getting through your day.
0 x

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 20 Mar 2016, 14:33

Upper/lower body split

Day1 Upper
Dumb bell bench press 4x8

Bent over row or seated cable row 4x8-12 - If you can perform a bent over a row with good form do it. If not use the machine. *BTW when I say row I'm not talking about the cardio rowing machine. I'm talking about the v bar grip you attach to cable and pull towards you, squeezing your shoulder blades together.

Shoulder press 4x8 - Dumb bells are always better for your shoulder joint than a barbell.

Lat pull down 4x12

ABs - pick any.

Reps are lower and the weight will be heavier because hypertrophy is not the goal. No need for arms if we aren't interested in bodybuilding. None of these movements are isolation they all involve multiple muscle groups.

Day2 Lower.

Goblet squat 4x8-12 - Pick a dumb bell hold it in front of your chest and squat. Remember drive through the heels. Get as low as you can with good form and squeeze your glutes as you push back up. You will be surprised how little weight you need to feel a burn from this.

Dumb bell or kettle bell dead lift 4x8-10. Feat wide apart it is almost like a wide squat. You may need to use the aerobic steps to get more hight for this. Drive through the heels and glutes.

Leg press 4x12

Walking lunge 3x10 steps for each leg

Hammy curl 4x12 - You may need to leave lunges to last because if your like me they always make me nuaesious and I'm abosolutly finished after do them.

Have a rest after these 2 days and if you feel like training again later in the week just start again.

Well guys. I hope this is good for you and mostly you enjoy doing it. Also I have changed my steam username back to easp incase anyone wants to add me and have a more direct conversation.
0 x

User avatar
storm84
Posts: 1894
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 16:58
Location: ACT
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by storm84 » 20 Mar 2016, 16:09

Thanks for the info, easp. I'll see how I can incorporate it into my week.

Went to the gym today, switched to the wide-grip lat pulldown (over the fixed pulldown) and made sure to use the seated cable row. Also tried some HIIT on the exercise bike - lasted 3 intervals. Tomorrow I'll run after work - provided I pull up OK from this weekend's efforts.
0 x
Image

User avatar
easp
Posts: 91
Joined: 24 Feb 2016, 16:50
Location: Melbourne

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by easp » 20 Mar 2016, 18:27

Nice hope it was a good work out. Eventually plan to move up too over hand grip body weight pull ups. You might be able to do them now or you may still need to develop the strength for them - that's what the lat pull down is for.
0 x

Disruptor4
Posts: 863
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 10:55
Location: A place where there is 4 seasons in one day.

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by Disruptor4 » 22 Mar 2016, 11:15

easp wrote:Going for jogs or doing any sought of steady state cardio is incredibly bad for fat loss. Why? because your body is smart and learns very quickly too become very efficient at burning calories. Instead you will slowly burn muscle creating that skinny fat look (skinny but no abs).
Me. Lol. I'm quite skinny but no abs. :( I technically do a lot of HIIT as I play local AFL so a lot of stop start sprinting. One thing I have noticed is that I've actually been doing heavy leg weights (squats, weighted calf raises, leg press mainly) and I don't feel anywhere near as sore or fatigued after footy training or a game of football. I feel more fresh and faster.

@Storm - I will say this. I think leg weight training is vital to your running. It's certainly helped me. I can run faster for longer periods of time (albeit I'm generally sprinting most of the time). On an average footy training session I'll do about 4.5KM in about 25 minutes. It's slower than I'd normally do if I was just aiming to run for 4.5KM, but footy training is technically interval training and I feel I could keep going for longer doing so and this is aided by the fact I've been doing leg weights. The days proceeding training I don't feel anywhere near as sore or fatigued (leg weight days I do, but that's a different story)...

@Kharis - I've heard cycling is great for the knees if done right. I personally wouldn't know as I don't ride but I had weak knees due to doing athletics as a kid and I feel they're a lot stronger since working my way up to heavier weights with squats, leg presses etc with correct form etc.
0 x
Image

User avatar
Ralph Wiggum
Posts: 631
Joined: 10 Nov 2015, 22:50

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by Ralph Wiggum » 22 Mar 2016, 12:00

Reducing carbs and alcohol may seem hard but I can attest it works. I just completed a February challenge at the gym which involved no pasta, no bread, no added sugar (fruit is ok) and no alcohol. On top of that I had to do a minimim of 3 classes and some weights tasks (not looking to build muscle, mostly weight loss and fitness)

Although I'm not overweight, I still dropped close to 3kg, which I think was bout 3% of my body fat. Basically four weeks of commitment undid a year's worth of indulgence. It was a good reset to start eating better and maintaining regular exercise.

It's important to find an exercise routine and environment that you're comfortable with and enjoy. My class involved a mix of body weight, interval training, boxing and weights.
0 x
RIP Games.On.Net.

User avatar
storm84
Posts: 1894
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 16:58
Location: ACT
Contact:

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by storm84 » 22 Mar 2016, 20:38

Achieved a milestone today. It's been my goal to run around the local lake in less than 40 minutes. Total distance is 6.7km. Gotten within a minute a couple of times, but today was the first time I managed to get under that time. Did it in 38:40!

Even happier considering I'm still sore from the weight training on Sunday.
0 x
Image

Forgetful_Lion
Posts: 184
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 12:56
Location: Queensland

Re: Training and fitness.

Post by Forgetful_Lion » 23 Mar 2016, 16:52

Disruptor4 wrote: @Storm - I will say this. I think leg weight training is vital to your running. It's certainly helped me. I can run faster for longer periods of time (albeit I'm generally sprinting most of the time). On an average footy training session I'll do about 4.5KM in about 25 minutes. It's slower than I'd normally do if I was just aiming to run for 4.5KM, but footy training is technically interval training and I feel I could keep going for longer doing so and this is aided by the fact I've been doing leg weights. The days proceeding training I don't feel anywhere near as sore or fatigued (leg weight days I do, but that's a different story)...
Make sure to stretch your hips and glutes so you get good glute activation when you run. Having strong glutes also helps. :)
@Kharis - I've heard cycling is great for the knees if done right. I personally wouldn't know as I don't ride but I had weak knees due to doing athletics as a kid and I feel they're a lot stronger since working my way up to heavier weights with squats, leg presses etc with correct form etc.
Swimming or cycling plus weights to strengthen my VMO was what my physio got me to do after my knee surgery. Have to avoid leg extensions though as they put a lot of load on the ACL.
0 x

Post Reply