Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

[Mugsy]

Did anyone see the TV miniseries Show Me A Hero? That spreading out of public housing throughout the community has a positive effect for those in poverty, whereas concentrated public housing tends to exacerbate the problems associated with entrenched poverty.

That's interesting, I didn't watch it - but I grew up in a town that had concentrated public housing that was terrible, the kind of place where the Police have a 'no pursuit policy' and only enter in force, like that ghetto from Training Day. AU Post wouldn't deliver, Ambulances/Firies wouldn't attend, and sure as hell no pizza delivery.

This was great for the rest of the community however, because all the drop kicks were in one spot and didn't cause too much trouble. Then they had that bright idea, broke up the estate and bought housing comission homes all through town in good areas. All it did was cause problems for the other owners when those tennants bought their problems with them, housing prices went down, people were stuck with disgusting people as neighbours, it was a nightmare for some of them, and having lived next door to one, I wouldn't want to do it again.

That being said, sticking a bunch of poor people together is a terrible, terrible idea - but hey I don't know what the solution is.

I haven't seen that mini series either but I know the that philosophy is what all the public housing departments around the country adhere to.

But yeah, my experience with living next to public housing aligns with Disco's feeling on the matter.

It's why I haven't sold up yet... coupled with a flat unit market and capital gains tax now, I'll be losing money after the sale. The last owner to sell took a year with the property on the market and he effectively sold at a loss after taking into account his renovation costs. Like the other owners in the complex, I'll be fighting the government on this one for dumping a problem on my doorstep and not dealing with it properly. I just feel for my poor tenants.

Part of me thinks that the policy makers and program coordinators of the public housing departments need to live next their public housing tenants for a while... might help them come up with an innovative solution to the matter.

[Disco]

I could tell you a funny story about hosing commission, and I will, because why not.

My Aunt is a bit of a shitbag, addicted to prescription painkillers, on 'disability' for 'back pain' and so on, bought a house on what is probably the worst street in Orange, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why that was a bad idea, completely surrounded by housing commission homes.

So, she recently had to pack up and abandon the house, her neighbour had apparently been quite abusive for some time and I have no doubt she added fuel to the fire or is/was the problem, who knows, but anyway she put in complaint after complaint with the housing department, and finally, they agreed to move that tenant due to the problems... so, they moved that tenant to the house across the road, rather than the house next door.

After having to move all their shit across the road, they visited my aunt and beat the ever loving shit out of her.

At the end of the day, dropkicks be dropkicks, and when people can't live within society or take care of a property I really have no sympathy for them. It's on the same level as people in hospital on methadone pregnant with their 10th kid, after having 3 other kids taken off them, the poor baby going through withdrawls when it's born and then being sent home to the rural community with their mother. Either you're fit to be a parent or you aren't, and why anyone would let that woman live with children at all is beyond me.

[storm84]

I think the key is it's the policy they adhere to now. There's plenty of examples around the country where in the past that wasn't the case, and the ramifications of that are still being felt. For example:


Trying to find some information about best practices, I came across this:
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... 798/98rp06

The aims and considerations of the policy make sense from what a government is able to influence on the issue, though the question of how to manage isolated troublemakers is not really addressed.

I also found it interesting in that paper and elsewhere there was talk about the demographic shift in public housing. More and more it's become the emergency measure for those who are marginalised by the current system, and that wasn't always the case. Which to me suggests that the question of what to do about problem tenants isn't so much about housing commission, but how to deal with the more anti-social behaviours that public housing exacerbates because of who it caters for. (though they also exist in the lower end of the private market - my brother had shithead tenants renting below him, as well as the previous tenants absolutely trashed the place he was renting, because that's the reality of low-cost housing government or not.)

[Disco]

I also remember standing at Redfern station and having the tenants of the blog throw beer bottles at us while we were working, fun times

[Mugsy]

We kinda had the opposite happen at our complex. The commission housing tenants were so loud and disruptive, the neighbouring block were the ones to throw crap at then unit. Made a mess of our unit. Obviously the the idiots in the block next door should have been more civilised about it but I did notice that as the commission housing tenants got worse, the other tenants nearby began to give a shit less and less. The body corp (mainly me as I was the only owner living there) was fighting an uphill battle and we weren't winning.

I'd really to see a proper study done not just on the benefits to the marginalised and to society as a whole but also examine those immediately living around public housing (... sorry, the economist in me is screaming out for any cost-benefit analysis to done right).

[storm84]

That was the bit that confused me. Isn't body corporate meant to deal with problem tenants? Pretty sure my body corporate can kick me out if I'm a problem. Though we have 120 apartments in our complex and I'm pretty sure at least 90% if them are rentals, so maybe I could be a problem tenant with impunity. Not that I would...

Perhaps we can partly chalk this problem down to using housing as an investment rather than housing as a place to live.

[Mugsy]

Nope, the body corp is the collection of owners but it's the individual owner of a lot who has a leasing arrangement with their tenant and thus up to that owner to deal with tenancy matters.

A body corp can issue a notice to an owner to deal with their troublesome tenant if a breach of by laws occurs. It's up to that owner then to do something.

So in the case of public housing, it's a matter of trying to get the State Gov to do something... And I can assure you their response will be unsatisfactory for most part unless you email the Minister with the threat of going to the media. Otherwise, there's just so much red tape for both the body corp, owners and even tenants to address. IMHO it's designed to be frustrating to protect the government from having to deal with a problem they're ill equipped to solve or manage.

[Mugsy]

Here's an example of what I envisaged as what's required in this country when it comes to dealing with public housing...



Doesn't exactly give any ideas of how to deal with trouble makers though. I think the questions to ask are:

1. How do you get a troublemaker to give a shit and change their ways?

2. If you fail at getting the troublemaker to change and not be a burden on society, what do you do? Get them to live next to those who do want want to contribute towards society knowing that the one troublemaker will likely ruin the home life for half a dozen households? Or stick all the troublemakers in the one area somewhere and let them either waste each other or waste away?

[Disco]

Here's an example of what I envisaged as what's required in this country when it comes to dealing with public housing...



Doesn't exactly give any ideas of how to deal with trouble makers though. I think the questions to ask are:

1. How do you get a troublemaker to give a shit and change their ways?

2. If you fail at getting the troublemaker to change and not be a burden on society, what do you do? Get them to live next to those who do want want to contribute towards society knowing that the one troublemaker will likely ruin the home life for half a dozen households? Or stick all the troublemakers in the one area somewhere and let them either waste each other or waste away?

Honestly, not my problem - kick them out and let them deal with their own shit, people much smarter than me can't figure that out, and we've spent christ knows how much putting up with it

[Mugsy]

Honestly, not my problem - kick them out and let them deal with their own shit, people much smarter than me can't figure that out, and we've spent christ knows how much putting up with it

This is pretty much the point I was eluding to with those questions. Society needs to have the balls to filter the public housing tenants so that those who want to change are given the chance to. Not doing so will breed undesirable attitudes and mindsets in society. But at some point, the line in the sand needs to be drawn and the troublemakers kept away from terrorizing innocent members of the community. In economics it's called an negative externality...

A negative externality is a cost that is suffered by a third party as a result of an economic transaction. In a transaction, the producer and consumer are the first and second parties, and third parties include any individual, organisation, property owner, or resource that is indirectly affected.

Quite a basic concept. Two parties do something where they gain but a third party loses out when they were just minding their own business.

And last I checked, governments were meant to protect members of society from such occurrences... or compensate them adequately if they had to take one for the team and be disadvantaged.

[storm84]

2. If you fail at getting the troublemaker to change and not be a burden on society, what do you do? Get them to live next to those who do want want to contribute towards society knowing that the one troublemaker will likely ruin the home life for half a dozen households? Or stick all the troublemakers in the one area somewhere and let them either waste each other or waste away?

The Battle Royale solution to dealing with extreme poverty won't be implemented any time soon.

[DarkMellie]

In at work for moral support, brought everyone a mcmuffin for breakfast and then pizza for the late-starters. Wishing I'd brought in my personal laptop for funziez.

[Disco]

First event with the club, no drinking and we were just standing around having a good time. There were two guys there from another club that are a bit rougher.

Camped next to us, absolutely shitface were some.. real drop kick bogan types, with two big pitt bulls unrestrained, but not really causing any problems. At some point, the two grubs over there pissed each other off and started laying into each other, and with the aggression one of the pitt bulls arced up and growled at him, and he started swinging on the dog, full punches to the face of the thing.

The two guys with us from the other club, were like “oh that’s not fucking on”, and off they went, so we went, and the guy who was beating the dog’s Mrs came over and pushed one of those guys, so he pushed back, and there were fists flying and it was all on.

A few seconds later the other one had a knife and was waving it around screaming that he was going to kill us and that we were rebel scum (yes, rebel scum). So we all backed the fuck off, no-one wants to get stabbed or cut. This cunt kept trying to get at us and kicked over two of our bikes, one of which was mine of course.

Anyway the guy with the knife was running around like a fuckhead, his mate is then chasing us because it was his wife that got pushed, but the two other guys had fucking absconded and he was looking for them and was so shitfaced he wanted to swing on anyone.

So the Cops came, as they do, hundreds of witnesses to the whole event, fuckhead chucks his knife and yells “no one saw a knife alright”.. then the cops took another knife off him when they arrived, a few of them scattered, one of the pitt bulls attacked a cop and they were going to shoot it, meanwhile we were off to the side talking to the other cops and they’re hurling abuse at us and carrying on.

All of them bar the woman got taken away in cuffs. Fucking what an Australia Day.

[Mugsy]

Can't say my day has been that eventful... domesticated is probably the most accurate word to use...

- did an hour in the pool on rising
- did gardening
- washed all my balconies and front courtyard today. My townhouse faces a busy road where two balconies and the courtyard are so they get pretty dirty.
- made some lunch
- did some washing
- had a packet of chips
- about to do some pest control (lots of ants lately)
- will do vacuuming and ironing afterwards

So far this Australia Day has been a good catch up day.

[Disco]

I wouldn't have said no to a quieter day Mugsy

[Mugsy]

Need to go pick my bro up from the airport tomoz... he's flying back from overseas and has food poisoning so a 2hr long train ride home isn't in his best interest.

[Nitephyre]

Fucken bikies! </s>

[Mugsy]

I've over applied ant dust in my front courtyard and it now looks like someone's plastered the place with cocaine.

[Matty]

I can't say anyone has pulled a knife at any of my motorcycle and/or car events.

[Disco]

I can't say anyone has pulled a knife at any of my motorcycle and/or car events.

First time for me too, just goes to show you never know when you're going to run into a bunch of fuck heads

[Artful-dodgeR]

We had a guy pull a knife at a Nissan meet, was really fun.

[Disco]

We had a guy pull a knife at a Nissan meet, was really fun.

It certainly changes the dynamic doesn't it, there were about 8-10 of us and it would have been resolved in fairly short order until that dickhead decided to up the ante - no one wants to risk getting stabbed. I had my knife on me, but the last thing the situation needed was more escalation - still it was good to know I had it if things got slicy and stabby at least I could look after myself, given how long it took for help to turn up (out of town at the lake, so the response time by the cops while good was still a few minutes where everything could have gone even further pear shaped).

You'd love these guys though Alex, mullets for days, matching Adidas clothes and bumbags, the term "known to police" comes to mind.

[storm84]

Always feels weird that there are people who carry a knife about for a "just-in-case" moment where it's needed. Never could imagine it in my life.

[Disco]

Always feels weird that there are people who carry a knife about for a "just-in-case" moment where it's needed. Never could imagine it in my life.

I've carried a knife pretty much every day as an adult, it's not there for safety in the event of an emergency, it's there because it's a handy tool that I use most days.

Funnily enough most people are the same, nearly all my colleagues are ladies and they often start with "why do you have that" and then it's quickly and often followed with "hey Disco can I borrow your knife"

Still, better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it IMO.

[storm84]

Evidently, we lead very different lives. At best, I occasionally make do with a key.