Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

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storm84
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by storm84 » 06 Aug 2019, 16:34

I think that in part arises from the vagaries of language and categorisation. If something has the appearance and function of leather, is it wrong to try to reference leather in a description? I'm really not so sure. If it was "vegan cow hide", I think it would be more contentious. We been able to deal with artificial fur without freaking out for a while now, after all...

Language is a difficult thing to control because it's meaning is in large part determined by how it's used, so I don't think it's necessarily a problem for any make use of analogues in what people refer to it as. Analogies and essences are how we think, so any attempt to try to define the boundaries of that is flawed from the offset.

It seems more a problem to me when the terms are put where its meaningless - I've seen organic water for example, which is absurd for two very obvious reasons. With the rise of vegans as a market, I fully expect to see vegan slapped on products that never had anything to do with animal products because it will be seen as a market advantage.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Mugsy » 06 Aug 2019, 16:40

Organic vegan unleaded 98 petrol

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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CherryRed wrote:
02 Dec 2018, 21:33
It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Nitephyre » 06 Aug 2019, 20:09

CherryRed wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 16:02
I've noticed the latest craze is to call things "vegan-whatever" rather than calling them what they are.

For example, saying a jacket is "Vegan Leather" rather than "polyurethane".

I feel like it can be misleading at times to the ill-informed and/or not so bright.
Maybe it's made from ethically farmed Vegans? :dance:
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I got nothing for ya... I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Disco
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Disco » 07 Aug 2019, 09:43

We could only hope
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by CherryRed » 07 Aug 2019, 10:20

storm84 wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 16:34
.... is it wrong to try to reference leather in a description? I'm really not so sure. If it was "vegan cow hide", I think it would be more contentious.
You are aware that the very definition of 'leather' is a material made from the skin of an animal by tanning or a similar process, right?

It's actually not possible for 'vegan leather' to exist.

Sure, slap a sticker on it to say it's vegan, whatever.... but call it what it is.
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Sathias
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Sathias » 07 Aug 2019, 10:50

I don't know why people are so down on vegans... most of the animals I eat are vegan ;)
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Otto-matic Reiffel » 07 Aug 2019, 10:53

CherryRed wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 10:20
You are aware that the very definition of 'leather' is a material made from the skin of an animal by tanning or a similar process, right?

It's actually not possible for 'vegan leather' to exist.

Sure, slap a sticker on it to say it's vegan, whatever.... but call it what it is.
Same argument exists for soy, almond, etc milk.

Nothing's going to happen until the government or maybe the ACCC steps in with regulations. Marketers will do whatever they can get away with for advantage.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by CherryRed » 07 Aug 2019, 11:17

What other people eat is of little interest to me, I'm not "down on vegans", the more vegans there are, the more meat that's left for the rest of us :mrgreen: This has been misinterpreted as a shot at vegans when my issue has nothing to do with vegans and what they will/won't eat or wear, it's all to do with what I consider to be false advertising and yes, it needs to be better regulated.
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Sathias » 07 Aug 2019, 11:37

All good, it was just an excuse for my "the animals i eat are vegan" joke :P There was an interesting piece on this on Foreign Correspondent last night, one of the guys from the Chaser went to the US and tried some chicken nuggets that had been grown in a lab and said they tasted exactly like normal chicken nuggets. For what it's worth I am supportive of lab-grown and plant-based substitutes (and would consider eating them if they taste good) but I agree that they shouldn't advertise as if they are real animal based products.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by storm84 » 07 Aug 2019, 11:46

Leather is product with a particular appearance and feel. The fact that it comes animals is only part of the way in which the word is used in a wider context. Again, artificial fur or faux fur are perfectly understood by people despite fur being exclusively something that comes animals. Why? Because language relies heavily analogies and categorisation, so things like appearance and function are as much embodied in the usage of a word as its origin - in some ways it's even more pertinent as most of us see nothing of its origin. But that's language - the same word can serve several functions, and from that analogous usage comes about.

If a product resembles or imitates leather in some way, the analogy is there such that it'll make sense to consumers. We've survived artificial fur. We've survived coconut milk. We've survived fake sheepskin. Language is fluid that way, and people can understand that products that be both like and unlike at the same time.

Seriously, what is the size of the subset of people who will be attracted by the word vegan on a product yet want a product that comes from an animal, yet cannot understand the distinction that the word vegan makes? I'm betting that the number is 0, or very close to it. Instead it's an issue because the word vegan is a morally contentious one.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by storm84 » 07 Aug 2019, 12:24

Funny thing is that you can already buy products on the market that advertise themselves as artificial leather, or pleather and such. Where's the outrage there? There isn't because it doesn't involve the word "vegan" - it's the v word that gets people riled up. The exact same supposed "abuse" of language doesn't affect people otherwise.

It's like that joke "how do you know if someone is a vegan? Don't worry, they'll tell you!" It's mite that vegans are crafting themselves out as a visible and viable alternative lifestyle than it is about holding language to account, hence the reaction to artificial leather being "100% real leather" put on products as a selling point. Vegan gets up people, which it shouldn't because they're the ones missing out on tasty nutritious animal products.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by CherryRed » 07 Aug 2019, 12:51

For all intents and purposes, I don't think I'm the one who is 'riled up' here.

You might need a bit of counselling, because you obviously stewed in your juices for 45 minutes and then came back for another crack :lol:
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by kharis » 07 Aug 2019, 12:59

Once all the animals are gone we’ll be happy to have vegans.... until we run out of them too
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by storm84 » 07 Aug 2019, 13:03

Wow, you are a nasty person! Taking the time to articulate myself isn't getting riled up, nor did I sit there stewing. I showed the topic respect by arguing the point of contention and only the point of contention. I like arguing ideas, but I dislike engaging with nasty people. I now know what this forum is...
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Disco
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Disco » 07 Aug 2019, 13:07

Jesus mate, did you forget your medication this morning or something? On the upside, at least this is entertaining

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Nekosan wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 00:36
Disco is fkn banned from the flamethrower. :lol:

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CherryRed
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by CherryRed » 07 Aug 2019, 13:11

kharis wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 12:59
Once all the animals are gone we’ll be happy to have vegans.... until we run out of them too Image
Just be mindful of eating too many vegans, Kharis, it seems they're pretty salty.
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Mythor
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Mythor » 07 Aug 2019, 14:12

That's quite enough, everyone.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Mugsy » 07 Aug 2019, 15:02

I've moved into the new place for a month and I'm still organizing my bookshelves.
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CherryRed wrote:
02 Dec 2018, 21:33
It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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CherryRed
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by CherryRed » 07 Aug 2019, 15:10

I'm not much of a book keeper myself... if it's good, I wanna share it with others... if it's bad, I want it gone :lol:
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Mugsy » 07 Aug 2019, 16:42

Most of my books are non fiction, reference material so definitely not things I'd give away. The joys of picking a profession that relies on a lot of content knowledge.
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CherryRed wrote:
02 Dec 2018, 21:33
It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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CherryRed
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by CherryRed » 07 Aug 2019, 17:01

Oh right, no, most of my books are fiction and read for pleasure... so it's either a shit book that wasted a week of my life and I want it gone, or it's a fabulous book and I take it into work to share with my volunteer team and they return the favour when they buy a book and think it's great.

It was a month yesterday since I pretty well had a bit of a breakdown, and one of my goals for helping myself was to spend more time doing things that I love and one thing I used to love was reading. So I've been doing a lot of reading lately, and we're getting awfully close to the weather being nice enough for sitting in the sunshine with a book in the afternoons so I'm planning on buying us some new/fancy (and most importantly, comfortable) chairs for this as it's nice to get out in the fresh air and sunshine with the dogs, a bit of music, a glass of wine and a good book. I'm currently burning through a book every 4-5 days which is a solid effort for me as I'm a painfully slow reader.

Although some of my netflix shows have brought out new seasons, and now that we've upgraded to IQ4 and will soon be able to access Netflix without fucking about with the Xbone, I'll probably start watching a few of those again... and The Block is back on too.
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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Nekosan
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Nekosan » 09 Aug 2019, 17:47

I used to be a book hoarded until i got a kindle, i still have a few shelves but nothing like i used to. Never been one of those "treat it like its glass" readers, books deserved to be loved and read, not sit on a shelf forever.


Also for the vegans: for every animal you dont eat, im going to smoke and eat two. :D

I'm pretty keen to try that Beyond burger tho, just to see if the hype is real. I think one of the local joints has them now.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by kittycatArcane » 12 Aug 2019, 15:26

I'm finally cleaning my room, after years of allowing it to fester into a depression-nest. So far: 20 years' worth of dirt swept and scrubbed away (how do I not have asthma? No wonder my allergies are bad), walls and floor I have never seen before are now clean, two bags of buried clothes being donated, and thirteen bags of trash have been removed from this tiny, tiny room.

... And I'm only halfway through.
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by Mini » 12 Aug 2019, 16:21

Well done!
I know that at a point it becomes too much, but you have got through the hardest part IMO.

Hopefully you feel a lot better once it is all clean :)
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CherryRed
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Re: Fleeting/Random/Thoughts

Post by CherryRed » 13 Aug 2019, 10:08

Having a clean, organised space really helps my mental wellbeing.... aaaaand makes it easier for Disco to pick up any slack and keep things under control when my mental health is not great.

If you want some inspo, jump on instagram and look for hashtags like #konmari #declutter #homeorganisation etc.
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Mugsy wrote:
09 Oct 2018, 21:26
I was raised to not do things I wouldn't want done to myself. And that's why anal sex is off the agenda.

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